Category: Let's talk
Okay folks, got a real dilemma. It’s long, convoluted and I don’t even know where to begin. It’s also not the sort of thing I write on these boards, and I may even deserve an ass-kicking by the time we’re through. But here goes.
As many of you who have read my posts know, I’ve been separated/divorced from my ex for almost four years now. Many of you know the circumstances behind it. I also moved back home with the parental units after years of being out on my own. Well, up until this past July, I had an arrangement with the ex where I basically shelled out my entire SSDI payment to her. It lasted from the time I left in March 2011 until this past July. The understanding was that I’d be done with it all, and she’d be entirely on her own. Well, as it turned out, she asked me to continue making half-payments of $1,000 per month. Both our names are on the condo we once shared. Well, I didn’t want to do anything initially because we had agreed that all the money would be mine, and I wanted her to just take the profits from the sale when it happened, but I agreed ultimately to $710 per month. Between my job, which gave me $1,600 a month take-home and the $1,330 I had left over, it was something over $2,900 per month in take-home altogether. Sometimes it’s more because there are months when we get paid three times a month. Well, I did all this through Paypal. Kept it pretty well hidden. And the reason I kept it hidden was because of one simple fact: At one time I loved the woman, but both she and my family hated each other. Maybe I didn’t love her the way I should have, but there it is. I wanted a guy more, and that’s what put the final nail in the coffin. Well, I won the demon lottery tonight. The Mom found out about it because she answered the phone, and it was Paypal inquiring whether the payment was legit. It really hurt her because I admittedly was dishonest. I said that I’d been paying more toward the student loan rather than toward the ex. And when she found out about it, I was given an ultimatum: Her or the ex.
I don’t know how to keep things short at all where this story is concerned, but suffice it to say that during the marriage, we ended up tearing each other apart in so many ways. And to top it all off, there were times when I tried to hide things from the ex that had nothing to do with my homosexuality. Rather, they involved credit cards and too many bills. It got to the point where I voluntarily shredded my ATM card because she couldn’t trust me with that. Not making an excuse, but this was back in 2007 when the big crash hit, and we ended up, as so many people did, running on empty. Using credit cards and overdraft to pay off bills. Long and the short was that I’ve had to make settlements because there some credit card liens I had to pay off, and I’m slowly paying off another one. I’m also still paying student loans from law school, which is yet another unpleasant reminder of the bad old days. I’m still paying cable and phone on my old place, the $710 I talked about, and $400 in rent. I wanted to pay more, including utilities and groceries, but the Mom won’t hear about it.
Anyway, now I’ve got so many questions running around in my head. First and foremost was that I did cover it up. There’s no doubt about that. But I did it because I knew how this person felt and feels about the ex. And she didn’t endear herself to my family, I have to say. But I wonder whether there was anything else I could’ve done. To my mother, it’s easy: Just cut her off because the ex, or I, or we, can’t afford it. I tend to disagree given the fact that more is going in than is coming out, and I also feel like it was my business, and that ultimately I’d end up getting myself out of debt, albeit slowly. Plus, I still feel guilty for my part in the divorce, and in my admittedly piss poor behavior while we were married. Maybe it’s no excuse, but I grew afraid of the ex. I also grew terribly afraid of disappointing people because it seems that’s all I was doing. And covering this up brought it all back. There’s a part of me that frankly feels ridiculous because I’m still in the soup after all this time, but I don’t want to break a promise. I broke too many of them when we were married., But at the same time I don’t want the parental unit to feel like I’m a total chump. I think the condo could ultimately be a pretty good investment, so a lot of what I’m doing now is paying toward the goal of making a profit. But to do things the way I wanted, I had to hide things. And I got caught – again!~ When I had no evil intentions. Plus, the ex-mother-in-law has stage four terminal cancer, so I hate like hell to make things worse on the ex. In short, I dunno what to do. I feel like I’m trying to make up for things because I behaved in a manner during the marriage that was so unlike me. And it all turns to shit. I mean, what the fuck gives and what the hell do I do? Any possible thoughts one way or another would be greatly appreciated.
John,
Wow, quite the pickle it sounds like. Let me give you one piece of advice, from a guy who
has also dealt with some of the same issues, albeit not the sexual orientation one. A lie
will always come back to bite you in the behind, and principles are worth everything. Also,
you can really beat yourself up over guilt and past mistakes, or really handicap yourself if
you think you have to make up for past mistakes on an ongoing basis. You did fulfill your
original agreement to your ex, which is admirable and a bery stand up thing to do. You
are now voluntarily carrying on past the agreement expiration. You now have parents
who are giving you an unreasonable ultimatum, unreasonable because it is your life and
yours alone to decide what to do with your funds. The way I see it, I think you need to
call your parents bluff now, and they may be disappointed, and so may your ex. It really
may come down to you moving out on your own again, giving your ex something if you
wish, although you are no longer obligated, and making your own way with your own rent
and expenses. Perhaps a room and board situation, or a room in a shared house? I don't
know, but that's basically what I had to do at one point, with some differences of course.
Now, you are probably going to feel that you will be letting others down, but what are you
doing for yourself? You are giving yourself a chance to be content, to live your own life,
not be beholden to anyone, and put your marriage in the past. If you have some money
left to give her each month, all the power to you, but she needs to realize that this may
stop or change at any time and that you are now under no legal obligation. Your parents
will need to have a relationship with you for who you are, and despite your relationship
with your ex. Let me tell you, I was called insensitive, selfish, etc, but no one will be
able to make yourself happy except yourself, so keep that in mind when you are making
life decisions. Do what is best for you, and for the people you love. If you still love your
ex in a way, then help her out when you can, but don't sell yourself out by lying, or
minimizing the type of life you can have for yourself by overly sacrificing your freedom or
lifestyle.
I wish you luck, and remember, you're not alone in dealing with difficult situations like
this.
Victor
Appreciate the good points. Fortunately for me the outcome ended up being positive. When my mother asked why I didn't talk with her about all this before starting to do what I did, I told her that's not the kind of person I ever was, I wasn't raised that way, and that she should remember that. I do things on my own and don't ask. If I suffer the consequences, I guess that's why they call it gambling. You pays your money, you takes your chances. Besides, I pay my bills on time, plus rent, plus meeting obligations I arguably don't have to meet. Generally speaking I'm in a much better place now than I was. Arguably I should be on my own, and I would, but the parental is gunna turn 80 this year and I'd rather be around if something happens. Thanks for the thoughts, and as I said, I don't normally seek advice on these kinds of issues because I normally figure them out on my own.
Glad to hear that things have worked themselves out. When people are reasonable, it's
amazing how a little time gives everyone perspective. If you are content with the situation
the way it was, then I applaud your commitments and decisions. You obviously care
deeply about those close to you, being your parents and your ex.
Johndy, Shaydz has got some seriously wise words here.
The only thging I would say RE: your ex. I'm on a forum with a lot of interfaith people, and a woman on there called a bunch of us guys out on something: we guys tend to treat women a lot like they're infants and not responsible for their own choices. She was talking interfaith situations and the complications with that, but it may apply to you. I know I was at first offended when I read her posts, her very abrupt manner with us guys who are stepping around issues trying every which way not to hurt the feelings of female partners, or in some case, ex-partners.
But it sounds like you have met all your obligations. It's hard for us guys to say this to a woman, I am first to admit it: But she knew as well as you that the time would be up, when you were no longer obligated. You were asked to go from $1000 a month payments down to $710. That means you compromised 71% and she compromised the remaining 19%. I'm guessing you would not accept such an arrangement with a male friend. Perhaps a male lover as romantic relationships are typically more complex than friendships. But would she make the same kind of uneven compromise if the shoe was on the other foot? I feel totally hypocritical saying all this, personally, because while I now understand the logic, I, too, would find standing up to a woman and treating her as a responsible, full, autonomous equal, to be a difficult decision when that means I have to say no.
She may never get on her feet, though, if she doesn't have the motivation to do it. Remember, this didn't just happen: You've had an agreement since 2011, she's known about it, had opportunity to make other plans. It's probably one of the hardest things you'll do, or at least nearly one of the hardest. Maybe top 10. There's just no social support for doing this.
But with this "compromise," you are still the one who has to deal with your student loans. You won't be able to tell the student loan people about her needs. And sadly, from what I've read, the student loan people now are absolute sharks, something I find totally disgusting but that's another topic. Meaning, you giving 79% and her acquiescing 21% may well cost you with the student loan people. If you end up bankrupting, I don't think the student loans get forgiven, but I don't know the whole scoop on that.
Believe me, I do understand the financial challenges: We're almost out of debt now to the IRS, from having debt settled on a lot of money spent on Her writing business and us living on only my income. Financial stuff is the stuff of greatest difficulty, because it reduces us to virtual slavery.
I'd agree with Leo.
I understand you'd like to continue, but you can't allow guilt to make you pay forever.
You had an agreement, you've stuck to that agreement.
Now it is time to tell her, sorry, but we're finished.
She won't agree, nor understand, but she must do what she has to do.
The rest, I can't say about. Debt is difficult. We needs some, but it is always wise to not take on to much.
I too have things to say about student loans. I don't personally have any, but as Leo says, that is a different topic.
You guys are right that it does have to end. Unfortunately the wheres and the hows are something that's sometimes more difficult than it might first appear to be. Fortunately I'm in a good enough place now that I feel I can pull the weight somewhat longer than normal and still meet the financial obligations I have, and then some. I demonstrated that to myself the other day by paying thousands of dollars off on my student loans and having still thousands more in the account when it was all said and done. Could I use the extra $710 each month? Probably, but it's not like I need it at this time. And I don't want to end it just now with her mother's situation being undoubtedly terminal, and the family having to go through that storm. My father passed within a year after I moved back home, and that was very difficult for me. What I think I'm gunna do is make a different proposal to her once her life settles down with her mother's situation. Because between what I'm paying to her in actual cash and the phone and cable, I''m shelling out pretty close to the monthly mortgage anyway. I think that my actually paying the mortgage directly and having her take up the responsibility of her own phone and cable bills is a reasonable compromise, plus the association dues. The condo is still in both of our names after all this time, so I think I still have obligations that way, and I'm looking at it as an investment, so my paying the mortgage is a way of looking out for that investment. I've got no problems with that since I can basically put that on autopilot,meaning I can have it automatically deducted from the account each month without my actually having to remember to do it. I do that with my student loans, and I'm gunna do that with the retirement debt I owe next. Put that one on autopilot and pay off large chunks of it every three or four months or so and just knock it out. I just turned 50, but that's pretty young by modern standards, and I'm in pretty good health. In a few short years I can be debt-free and still have a lot of good years left. It would be easier if the people closest to me would realize that maybe, just maybe, I've got this, and they need to settle down and let me handle it. I don't need to be put into a corner where I either have to fight over something or lie about something in order to get things done with a minimum of bullshit. The lies do come back to haunt you, but sometimes you do feel like you have to cover things up when you're cornered,and that's never a good thing. Anyway, thanks again guys.